Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions-2

I think what you will hear in response to this is that those people don't actually have DID, they're "faking it" where the trauma people have real DID.

10:11 PM

So that you saw people convince themselves they have it indicates they are faking - but I'm also betting a significant chunk of DID communities are people like that as well.

10:12 PM

(not my opinion by the way, devils advocate)

10:12 PM

(well, that part after the "but" was my opinion)

sure i know what you mean but that's fine, in my opinion using word "fake" is unfair because it suggests malingering, i don't think it needs to happen on purpose and consciously. also "faking" suggests they are not experiencing the symptoms and i don't believe that is necessarily the case every time

To continue to predict the response you'll get here - "it's fake anyways, you can't possibly be experiencing the expected symptoms without real trauma and all the people experiencing this are actually delusional". But at that point, I'm not sure there's a way to argue, it's just an idealist tug of war.

you cant argue against a definition

Reguile

I think what you will hear in response to this is that those people don't actually have DID, they're "faking it" where the trauma people have real DID.

I actually found a Psychology Den talk on DID and the doctor said that the difference between DID and BPD is the DID patients get better after fusion and the BPD patients don't... Which is something I have a lot of questions/doubts about. Don't people with DID often have comorbid BPD?

what that's... huh? how is bpd otherwise the same thing as did?

it's really common for DID patients to split again after fusion

10:24 PM

BPD often has dissociative fugue states which I guess can be confused with switching with a headmate

plural brain knows how to plural! plural brain gets more plural!

10:24 PM

hm

10:25 PM

fair, but jesus fucking christ, why would you ever try to diagnose the difference by applying a full course of treatment

10:25 PM

that's ridiculously bad (edited)

BPD is bipolar disorder

bpd is borderline personality disorder too

10:26 PM

so now i'm even more confused

Oh, I'm answering the wrong question, nevermind

oh

i had glimpses of full fusion that sometimes worked for hours... they were the most beautiful moments in my life and is definitely something that i'm working towards despite all the fear of it that did community put in my brain

If that's what's best for you then that's what's best for you.

10:27 PM

Goal should be happiness.

By BPD I'm referring to borderline personality disorder, sorry

10:31 PM

I still stand by my assumption final fusion should be a choice. If that's what you want go for it, but if it's not then I think it's wrong for a therapist to push that on you

it definitely wasn't pushed on me

That's really good

Final should be a choice, but ideally therapists would have a way to know the "on average a participant who picks X does Y percent better in long term life success, so you should probably...."

We're not even a traumatic system and we have at least one person suggest we shouldn't be plural. Although that guy seemed a little too informed, I had the feeling he was plural himself

Leiko

i had glimpses of full fusion that sometimes worked for hours... they were the most beautiful moments in my life and is definitely something that i'm working towards despite all the fear of it that did community put in my brain

what fear?

A long kiss goodnight

I actually found a Psychology Den talk on DID and the doctor said that the difference between DID and BPD is the DID patients get better after fusion and the BPD patients don't... Which is something I have a lot of questions/doubts about. Don't people with DID often have comorbid BPD?

Yeah but BPD should be understood less as a personality disorder in the traditional sense, and more of a disorder of trauma. That is almost always its primary factor (also parents who are prone to over-reacting)

yeah. there's also the ridiculous amount of the time that if a woman has ptsd, it gets misdiagnosed as bpd. i wish i could remember the statistics.

Reguile

BPD is bipolar disorder

BD is bipolar disorder

11:01 PM

And… other things

11:01 PM

Things we cannot mention in decent spaces

Leiko

after spending some time in did community i stopped thinking that the syndroms specified for DID need to come from trauma and in my opinion can have an iatrogenic origin. I'm not sure if there is an exclusivity on the origins source. i did bring up a few times on this server that i saw people developing pseudo-did (a singlet joins because they want to understand did because their friend has it, only to hear about symptoms and start having them after 2 weeks too; or a person who said "did is not that rare, i helped 25% of my gaming discord server discover they all have did!"). in my opinion did communities are quite harmful and it is good that did has a stigma attached to it, because of the iatrogenic potential. in the end of the day for me personally it doesn't matter, but i do keep in mind that people can be misguided by others or themselves which is why i always discourage people from doing research by themselves (medical student syndrome) and just see a doctor to address the issues they struggle with. noone even talks about differential diagnosis in the communities. i personally don't even think that diagnosis matters outside of the clinical context. and yes what they said on namimi website is definitely not the way to treat it, but unfortunately that is what people in the did community expect treatment to be like and have literal mental breakdowns when their therapist don't have the enabling approach.

leiko this is incredibly true and well written

^

3:47 AM

I think when my tulpas possessed me, mixed with being with my ex who likely has osdd, it made me think i also had osdd, but im glad ive realised i dont because holy fuck that made me feel so burnt out and scared

I have a serious question

1:09 PM

where is the line drawn between imaginary and real when it comes to headmates?

Luminesce: Just at meaningfulness to you, I suppose (edited)

Im asking because this DID convo reminded me of that one time I wasnt allowed to use pluralkit in a server because "your tulpas are imaginary and our alters are real" (edited)

Though a lot of tulpamancy experiences, once you've developed a tulpa fully, are easy to distinguish from random imagined experiences

1:11 PM

But whether you choose to draw a line there or at all imagined experiences being the same is up to how meaningful any given one is to you

1:12 PM

Ah yeah, there's a lot of unfortunate.. I mean, literal tulpa racism lol, against tulpas from traumagenic systems

funny thing is, I AM a traumagenic system. just not a DID system but a tulpa one.

As far as I can tell they're exactly the same concept, but with wildly different context in the brain for traumagenic plurality

1:13 PM

I would guess that they still look very similar on a neurological level, but we don't especially have good research on that yet

1:14 PM

I don't like choosing fights, but I find "plurality gatekeeping" ridiculous.

this is why there needs to be more research and possibly a medical diagnosis for imaginary friends and tulpas

1:15 PM

first of all, we will be taken more seriously. second of all, we will get more information about what is going on in our brains and what makes us different from DID/OSDD systems.

1:15 PM

and why our brains chose that path instead of the DID path

Reisen

I don't like choosing fights, but I find "plurality gatekeeping" ridiculous.

yes my literal BEST FRIEND doesnt deserve a seat at the table because hes a tulpa

Reisen

I don't like choosing fights, but I find "plurality gatekeeping" ridiculous.

Luminesce: Especially when my tulpas fall in the middleground, where they were created unintentionally and absolutely without knowledge of the concept of plurality at all, but they're also not "traumagenic" or anything - I suppose I was just lonely and latched onto the idea of someone being there for me when I felt no one IRL was. So, the claim that my tulpas (that are definitely tulpas) are somehow less real is hard to take seriously. And, the idea that my tulpas would be somehow more real because they weren't made on purpose and without outside knowledge is also hard to take seriously, when my tulpa I made many years later with knowledge of tulpamancy is no different from the first "natural" three. (edited)

good riddance

Reisen

Luminesce: Especially when my tulpas fall in the middleground, where they were created unintentionally and absolutely without knowledge of the concept of plurality at all, but they're also not "traumagenic" or anything - I suppose I was just lonely and latched onto the idea of someone being there for me when I felt no one IRL was. So, the claim that my tulpas (that are definitely tulpas) are somehow less real is hard to take seriously. And, the idea that my tulpas would be somehow more real because they weren't made on purpose and without outside knowledge is also hard to take seriously, when my tulpa I made many years later with knowledge of tulpamancy is no different from the first "natural" three. (edited)

this

1:18 PM

you know what grinds my gears?

1:18 PM

its when people with DID who know about the nature of their alters say this stuff

1:19 PM

what makes your alter felix more real than my tulpa thomas when both of them were created from trauma?

1:20 PM

I genuinely wanna know

Luminesce: Well, like I said, I don't believe there's a core difference in their beings. Just the brain context may differ in what connections the brain makes between them and stuff, ie trauma-related things, and effects like unintentional switching or memory loss. But I still don't consider those inherently different from the tulpamancy experience, those connections could be made for a tulpa, like if say an existing tulpa-and-host experienced later trauma. (edited)

1:23 PM

So just a difference in "often the case", but not in core existence... Probably.

the best part is when people get offended when I tell them I have "imaginary friends"

1:24 PM

and they know Im 18 years old

1:24 PM

what 18 year old would have "imaginary friends" without needing them for any reason?

Well, the tulpamancy community itself usually differentiates "imaginary friends" and "tulpas" based on the level of autonomy and independence they show (as well as the host's choice on how to think of them)

1:25 PM

But outside of the tulpa community, saying you have imaginary friends is probably just easier, yeah

1:25 PM

(Sorry, unrelated comment in reply to just the first sentence) (edited)

the point is

1:26 PM

I need thomas just as much as someone with DID needs lets say alex

Luminesce: Oh absolutely, my tulpas are as important to me as life itself, since I feel I literally owe my life to them (edited)

same here

1:28 PM

my tulpas were also created with zero knowledge about what plurality or headmates were

1:28 PM

im 5th grade

I wasn't personally suicidal, but I cannot imagine how awful my life would've been without the extremely positive influence they've been, and I guess I can't say for sure that I would be alive if I hadn't made so many positive changes to my life with their help

my tulpas managed to teach me how to socialise

1:29 PM

and with some practice online

1:29 PM

I managed to break out of my shell

1:29 PM

now I have both irl friends and tulpas

1:30 PM

though a lot of the time I prefer the company of my tulpas :^)

Reisen

Well, the tulpamancy community itself usually differentiates "imaginary friends" and "tulpas" based on the level of autonomy and independence they show (as well as the host's choice on how to think of them)

And what is considered autonomy?

@Makikikikiki - jump Generally speaking, the ability for the tulpa to function without direct influence by the host. Such as them being able to talk without the host guiding them to talk

Talking to sysmeds is never fun. Sadly I seem to never find the opportunity to have a real discussion with one. The one time I met sysmeds and spoke to them on Discord, they were so fragile they couldn't have a conversation. The thing that always annoys me is when a sysmed can handle a conversation with a tulpa, it's like their brains are blown once the tulpa shares their experiences. And then the sysmed says "are you sure you're not an alter?"

I've never heard the term "sysmed" before, what's that mean?

Gemini(Fairweather)

And what is considered autonomy?

@Makikikikiki - jump Generally speaking, the ability for the tulpa to function without direct influence by the host. Such as them being able to talk without the host guiding them to talk

Thanks ❤️

@Makikikikiki - jump No problem!

Gemini(Fairweather)

I've never heard the term "sysmed" before, what's that mean?

A person who believes the only valid systems are DID/OSDD ones (edited)

Ah, yeah I've ran into a handful of them before. Thank you~

1

Any tips about how to differentiate between voices i could have heard before and pops in my mind while talking as intrusive thoughts and real moments my tulpa is trying to talk? (edited)

This process takes time for your mind to sort out. In the meantime, I think it's more important to let your tulpa speak more than figure out who said what. Even if it sounds like you, your memory of your mom, or something else, you can ask your tulpa if that was them and if they say yes you can accept it. A tulpa can always reject stuff they don't agree was them later In addition, keep in mind it's normal for your tulpa to be inconsistent at first. Your tulpa is constructing their sense of self and they may not have completely decided things like their favorite color or what they prefer to wear.

A long kiss goodnight

This process takes time for your mind to sort out. In the meantime, I think it's more important to let your tulpa speak more than figure out who said what. Even if it sounds like you, your memory of your mom, or something else, you can ask your tulpa if that was them and if they say yes you can accept it. A tulpa can always reject stuff they don't agree was them later In addition, keep in mind it's normal for your tulpa to be inconsistent at first. Your tulpa is constructing their sense of self and they may not have completely decided things like their favorite color or what they prefer to wear.

The context is this, i started creating him since yesterday like at 6pm, after some talking a few words came to my mind after making questions, i thought it may be my mind parroting with a weird version of the voice i had in mind, after that i just kept frequently narrating what i'm doing and making frequently questions to him about it, again a few words came to my head like "yes, no, it's cool, good", and what i kinda don't completely get or more like what's happening is that i'm afraid that it is happening like really fast, don't know if it's because my head is "built different" how i like to say that the words started that fast but i think in my opinion that it is as fast as to don't really trust, should i trust that it isn't really my brain and that he just advanced as fast as to be able to say some words already?

this is why there needs to be more research and possibly a medical diagnosis for imaginary friends and tulpas

@rain - jump why would you need a medical diagnosis?

good question actually

10:05 PM

do we need one?

10:05 PM

there are benefits and drawbacks

i mean if you say that there needs to be a medical diagnosis i would suppose you had a reason for that

I tend to say it when I get fed up with DID people denying us the right to exist

first of all, we will be taken more seriously. second of all, we will get more information about what is going on in our brains and what makes us different from DID/OSDD systems.

@rain - jump did is not just about alters, i personally consider the alters to be a side effect of other symptoms of the disorder. since there are a lot of other symptoms, there is a list of differences between tulpamancy and did

10:09 PM

I tend to say it when I get fed up with DID people denying us the right to exist

@rain - jump so did you mean that you would liek to have a scientific/medical recognition of the tulpa phenomena? because diagnosis suggests there is a problem

yes